Arjun Singh Unearthed !!

This is a Section of the Interview Held by CNN-IBN channel .
The interviewer was Karan Thapar ... and this is what Arjun Singh had to say .. ... ..
The full discussion can be read from ...
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/decision-on-quota-is-final-arjun/11063-4-1.html



Karan Thapar: So, when critics say to you that you don't have a case for reservation in terms of need, what do you say to them?


Arjun Singh: I have said what I had to say and the point is that that is not an issue for us to now debate.


Karan Thapar: You mean the chapter is now closed?


Arjun Singh: The decision has been taken.


Karan Thapar: Regardless of whether there is a need or not, the decision is taken and it is a closed chapter.


Arjun Singh: So far as I can see, it is a closed chapter and that is why I have to implement what all Parliament has said.


Karan Thapar: Minister, it is not just in terms of 'need' that your critics question the decision to have reservation for OBCs in higher education. More importantly, they question whether reservations themselves are efficacious and can work.


For example, a study done by the IITs themselves shows that 50 per cent of the IIT seats for the SCs and STs remain vacant and for the remaining 50 per cent, 25 per cent are the candidates, who even after six years fail to get their degrees. So, clearly, in their case, reservations are not working.


Arjun Singh: I would only say that on this issue, it would not be correct to go by all these figures that have been paraded.


Karan Thapar: You mean the IIT figures themselves could be dubious?


Arjun Singh: Not dubious, but I think that is not the last word.


Karan Thapar: All right, maybe the IIT may not be the last word, let me then quote to you the report of the Parliamentary Committee on the welfare for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes - that is a Parliamentary body.


It says that looking at the Delhi University, between 1995 and 2000, just half the seats for under-graduates at the Scheduled Castes level and just one-third of the seats for under-graduates at the Scheduled Tribes level were filled. All the others went empty, unfilled. So, again, even in Delhi University, reservations are not working.


Arjun Singh: If they are not working, it does not mean that for that reason we don't need them. There must be some other reason why they are not working and that can be certainly probed and examined. But to say that for this reason, 'no reservations need to be done' is not correct.


Karan Thapar: Fifty years after the reservations were made, statistics show, according to The Hindustan Times, that overall in India, only 16 per cent of the places in higher education are occupied by SCs and STs. The quota is 22.5 per cent, which means that only two-thirds of the quota is occupied. One third is going waste, it is being denied to other people.


Arjun Singh: As I said, the kind of figures that have been brought out, in my perception, do not reflect the realities. Realities are something much more and of course, there is an element of prejudice also.


Karan Thapar: But these are figures that come from a Parliamentary Committee. It can't be prejudiced; they are your own colleagues.


Arjun Singh: Parliamentary Committee has given the figures, but as to why this has not happened, that is a different matter.


Karan Thapar: I put it to you that you don't have a case for reservations in terms of need, you don't have a case for reservations in terms of their efficacy, why then, are you insisting on extending them to the OBCs?


Arjun Singh: I don't want to use that word, but I think that your argument is basically fallicious.


Karan Thapar: But it is based on all the facts available in the public domain.


Arjun Singh: Those are facts that need to be gone into with more care. What lies behind those facts, why this has not happened, that is also a fact.


Karan Thapar: Let’s approach the issue of reservations differently in that case. Reservations mean that a lesser-qualified candidate gets preference over a more qualified candidate, solely because in this case, he or she happens to be an OBC. In other words, the upper castes are being penalised for being upper caste.


Arjun Singh: Nobody is being penalised and that is a factor that we are trying to address. I think that the prime Minister will be talking to all the political parties and will be putting forward a formula, which will see that nobody is being penalised.


Karan Thapar: I want very much to talk about that formula, but before we come to talk about how you are going to address concerns, let me point one other corollary - Reservations also gives preference and favour to caste over merit. Is that acceptable in a modern society?


Arjun Singh: I don't think the perceptions of modern society fit India entirely.